Episode #5: Money, Life, and Meaning with Carl Richards

In this episode of the Retirement IQ Podcast, host John Stregger welcomes renowned financial planner, author, and New York Times columnist Carl Richards to explore the powerful connection between money and life. Carl, famously known as the “Sketch Guy”, shares how his simple illustrations make complex financial concepts easy to understand. Discover why financial planning should align with your life goals, and the importance of having open, honest money conversations within families. Packed with practical wisdom and inspiring stories, this episode will help you rethink wealth, reduce financial stress, and create a retirement that supports true joy and fulfillment. 

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Transcript

Episode #5: Money, Life, and Meaning with Carl Richards

John Stregger: 00:09 - 00:44
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Retirement IQ, where I help you better understand all the things retirement, things about retirement, so you can build the kind of retirement that you only dream of. I'm your host, John Strager, and today I am super excited for a number of reasons. First off, today we are going to host our first guest of our podcast. We've, we've been running the podcast for about four or five episodes now. We're switching it up a bit and I can't think of a better guest to bring on the show than my friend, Mr. Carl Richards. Carl, welcome to the show

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Carl Richards: 00:45 - 00:47
Thanks, John. I'm really excited to have this conversation. Thanks for having me.

John Stregger: 00:48 - 01:29
Awesome. Thanks for joining us today. Uh, for our viewers and listeners, maybe you've heard of Carl before, but maybe you haven't. I've got a quick bio that I want to run through, uh, for our listeners. So Carl, uh, you know, quite frankly, you're an icon in the financial planning industry and I've gotten to know you over the last about six months, I guess, uh, been part of this mastermind group that you've been facilitating. Been very, uh, uh, inspirational for me. And, um, I gotta say that Carl, you're really passionate about what you do and it comes through in the work that you do and. Maybe you can just give me a quick bio of, of what you've done over your, your career.

Carl Richards: 01:30 - 04:00
Yeah. Thanks, John. Um, so I started out in the financial services industry, speaking broadly, working in a big brokerage firm. And, um, soon it became very evident to me that I wanted to start my own company, my own financial planning firm. So I launched that and about that time, um, I remember meeting with some clients. who were super smart, was in the conference room, super smart clients. And I was explaining a concept and I can't remember exactly what the concept was, but I do remember the look on their face is sort of these blank stares. And I had this realization that these are super smart people. And if they're not understanding something I'm explaining, it's my fault, not theirs. And so sort of out of an act of desperation, I stood up at the whiteboard and I'd never done this before. I'm not a doodler. I have no art background. I stood up at the whiteboard and I drew something. I think it was like a circle and an arrow and a square or something trying to describe. I was like, no, like this. And I drew it on the whiteboard. And I remember the clients, their names were Dave and Diane. I remember them saying, Oh, we get it now. We get it now. And that I became sort of addicted, if you will, to that moment of taking something that's complex and obscure, like money and trying to reduce it down to something that's simple and easy to understand. And so I started putting these sketches online on the internet and, um, one thing led to another. And I, like, I, I grew up in the Hills in Utah, so I didn't know much about New York or newspapers. You know, like big New York times style papers, got an email from the editor there saying, Hey, I love these. Would you, would you consider doing some for us? And I, I knew enough to say yes to that question. So that started a column for the New York times that ran for 10 years. And then that led to a book and another book. And that my second book, the one page financial plan came out, I think 11 years ago. And I've been waiting sort of carefully thinking about, I've been avoiding writing another book. Um, but got a new book coming out in October called Your Money. Um, so that's a little bit of background. So now I, I sold my financial planning firm years ago and have spent the last almost 15 years now just sort of traveling the world. talking to people about money, um, and then writing what I notice. So that, that's, that's a little bit of my background.

John Stregger: 04:01 - 05:32
Well, you were kind enough to send me an advanced copy of your book. And, uh, I found it so interesting because Like you said, when I'm working with clients, I find that the most powerful times, uh, when I'm in front of a client is when I'm able to explain a concept on a, on a piece of paper and just draw it out for them, whether it's a bucket or, you know, just some simple lines, because that's when they can really understand things. And when you put spreadsheets in front of people, it becomes More confusing, oddly enough, there's more detail, but it becomes more confusing. And it strikes me that, you know, something so simple when explained properly can be so powerful. And I've seen a lot of your napkin drawings, we'll call them, but they're probably the most powerful financial planning tools available. There's a couple that come to mind, actually, as I think about it, like there's, there's one where it's, you know, for, for people that, uh, to, to explain it without putting it on the screen here, but two big circles, right. And you've got the intersect, they over intertwine each other and you've got life in one circle. And, and I think it's money in the other. And when they, when they intertwine each other, that's you explain that as being, uh, where financial planning, uh, meets or, or comes together. Maybe you can explain that one a little bit for me.

Carl Richards: 05:33 - 08:05
Yeah. So that's a Venn diagram. I, in my first two books had a lot of these diagrams too. And so I've done a lot of, um, art, art on the radio, as we used to call it with, we, we did something with NPR. So I've had to describe these, excuse me. So I've had to describe these a lot. So imagine a Venn diagram, well, two circles with an overlap and one circles labeled your money and the other circles labeled your life. And the overlap is labeled real financial planning. And the idea there is often we think about your money. In fact, there was a really great book, like one of the most impactful books I've ever read about money. It was called Your Money or Your Life. And again, the book is a classic. I love the book. I've just always really been bothered by the title because it painted it as this conflict that I had to choose between my money or my life. And I really think it's your money and your life. In fact, my new book was going to be called your money and your life, but we decided to make it simpler and just call it your money. Um, but the process of making good decisions with money. is a process of aligning those two things, like aligning your use of capital in all its forms, money, time, energy, and attention, aligning your use of capital with what's important to you. In other words, aligning your money with your life and then paying attention to the interaction between those two, like sometimes what you think is important to you. And this is, it goes to another, another sketch in the book. The book is made up of 101 sketches and 101 short essays. So there's another one in there. Um, call it, it says the only goal that Matt, there's a bunch of asterisks, bunch of asterisks, and there's an arrow pointing to one and the arrow is labeled. The only goal that matters is yours. It, it turns out like kind of getting clear right about what matters to us is a challenge. Like it's a never ending process because John, I don't know about you, but when I was growing up, I, all my buddies had dirt bikes, little, little BMX dirt bikes. And I remember when I was seven, I. I kind of wanted a slightly nicer dirt bike. Like, but I didn't know that I was supposed to want a private jet. Right. And now with Instagram, I know that I'm supposed to want a private jet or a Chateau in France or something.

John Stregger: 08:05 - 08:05
Right.

Carl Richards: 08:05 - 08:16

Right. So getting clear about what it is you want in your life and how you're going to use your money. And aligning those, you know, is it about time for you?

John Stregger: 08:16 - 09:14

It's funny because when I, when I started my career, uh, 25 years ago, let's say, um, I always focused on the numbers, right? I always had an amazing plan for people to get them from. you know, X to Y like really here, here, here's a way we can automatically get more money in your account. It's going to be great. And oftentimes people go, yeah, that's good. It wasn't until more recently where I started talking to people about, you know, what do you want to accomplish? What's, what's, what's really important to you about money? You know, what, what do you. What's going to make you really happy if we're sitting here three years from today, looking back over three or the past three years, what kind of a life do you have? And what what's made it really fruitful and enjoyable. And once they can articulate that, then we can build the financial plan to, to meet their goals, their, their values. Right. And that's where I find that's where financial planning means something to people. Right.

Carl Richards: 09:16 - 09:37
Yeah, for sure. And, and, and by the way, that's a, as you know, that's a never ending process, you know, like it, you know, aligning those two things, cause goals will change, your financial situation will change, you know? And so we just, it's this never ending process of aligning our use of money with what we want in our lives.

John Stregger: 09:38. - 10:22
Well, isn't it interesting that, um, like you say, goals change. Um, you know, if you ask me coming out of school, what would make you happy? And if you said, geez, John, you can make 40 grand a year, I'd be set for life. So happy, you know, and, you know, fast forward, got five kids. I don't need a heck of a lot more money than 40 grand a year to support that. Um, but the goals have changed for me and I know the goals are going to change for me going forward. I don't have grandkids. probably will someday, like I've got to constantly, it's this moving target that just keeps moving and moving. But as long as you can align your, your, your planning with those moving goals, I think you can have a pretty successful life.

Carl Richards: 10:24 - 11:42
Yeah. That's an important point, John, that, um, goals really are just guesses. about what we want in the future. And of course we want to make the best guess we can, but by calling it a guess, we suggest to our minds, we give ourselves permission to be a little bit more playful with it. I find that most of us humans don't really like being asked what our goals are. Cause it, it, it creates tension of like, oh, I've read that all smart people have goals. Like we, we, I feel it between my shoulder blades whenever anybody asks me about my goals. But if I can treat it with a little bit more playfulness, like, you know, I'm not, I'm not sure, John, what I want, but I kind of think we would love to travel a little bit more and then we can hold that as a, as a goal. But we, in our minds, we're flexible with it. Like we go travel, we take action, we travel a little bit, we learn. that maybe traveling to Europe was less exciting to us than an hour away at the lake. Like it's okay for us to be flexible with that and realize that's actually part of the plan. Trying to be right about your goals. Like we, you want to be committed to your goals and hold them loosely.

John Stregger: 11:42 - 12:34
Yeah, well, it's really interesting what you said at the beginning of our talk here about Instagram, influencing people, what they think their goals should be. When actual, I think as we mature and get into our old age here, people start to realize, okay, Family time is more important. Yeah. Maybe traveling is more important. You know, I talked to a client today, actually, who went to Europe for the first time in 15, 20 years. And he, his comment was, geez, John, we just stayed at some, we didn't stay at the Ritz. We stayed in a small hotel, no air conditioning, but man, we had the best time ever. Cause we met the best people. Like people really start to learn about. who they are and the kind of people they want to commiserate with. It's not always about having the best, the best five star. It's more about the experiences of life.

Carl Richards: 12:36 - 13:59
Yeah, for sure. I remember we had a particularly, um, kind of like a, like a dream summer as a family. I never, I like the idea of traveling to another country just never even crossed my mind when I was little. Um, like we drove on all of our vacations. So we had this dream summer with our family that involved a couple of international trips. I remember at the end of the summer asking my son and I can't remember how old he was. I think he was like 11 or 12 at the time. I remember asking him like, Hey, what was the highlight of your summer? Maybe he was younger even. Um, what was the highlight of the summer? And I was thinking like, you know, Paris or something. And he said, remember that time we were at the lake throwing rocks? And I was just like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What about, he was like, no, that time we were at the lake throwing rocks. So, but I didn't know that. And, and that experience shaped. what we did in following summers. Like, so that information was new, but it also points to something else. Like, it's not always the flashiest thing. It's not always that sometimes what matters is experiences with people you love. Those experiences don't have to necessarily, they could be, they could be like, the experience could be like walking the Camino in Spain. It could also be walking to the mailbox each night with your spouse, right? Like they're, the experience is what matters.

John Stregger: 14:00 - 14:47
Yeah. Like to your point, same thing with our kids. We used to camp a lot. Like I'm talking tents, you know, or the back of your car. And our kids say those are the fondest times. We'd be up, up North and, and just beautiful memories. And, and remember this happened, remember that happened and remember the rainstorm and blah, blah, blah. Well, you know, I don't camp anymore. Right. But we do have a cottage that we can go to now and the same thing. It's not, it's not as rustic as camping. It's a quite nice place, but we're together, we're having campfires, we're hanging out by the water and, and sharing stories. So I think that's the really most important thing for me anyway. Right. It can be different for any, any, anyone can have different goals and aspirations, but that's, what's important to us.

Carl Richards: 14:48 - 15:28
Yeah, that's, that's the kind of conversation I'm hoping to spark with this book is, you know, like you're back to that Venn diagram, your money overlapped with your life. Like I can imagine somebody saying like, Hey, what's important to you? Or the, the sketch that says goals equals guesses. Like what, what do you think is important to you? Hey, do you realize like, man, that trip was really, really fun and we did that and that and that, or, or that trip didn't turn out to be, or I don't really love going out to the movies, to be honest. I'd rather have friends over and make dinner together. So we start to have, let's start having those conversations because that's where real quality, meaningful decisions about money happen is in those kinds of conversations.

John Stregger: 15:29 - 16:27
Yeah, definitely. And you make a comment, it was either in the book or in the prelude to the book about, you know, putting the book down on the coffee table and, you know, letting the grenade go basically and have these conversations. I love that analogy. Cause it's like, you know, sometimes these conversations can be scary too, right. For, for people to have, especially with family or spouses. And, uh, I think though, the more you have conversations, whether it's with your spouse or, or with your advisors, uh, the better off you're going to be. It'll bring clarity to, to what you want to achieve and And let's face it, it's not about money. It's about accomplishing what you want to have in life. Right. And, and I think, you know, books like yours really help people, uh, drive towards those goals. And, and, you know, hopefully I can help people drive towards those goals from a financial perspective.

Carl Richards: 16:29 - 17:58
Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, Give yourself lots of grace that, you know, like most of us don't know how to have these conversations because nobody taught us. And so, cause you think a conversation about money will be a conversation about math. And then suddenly you're shocked when you open the American express bill and you're suddenly fighting with your spouse. You're like, wait, I thought this was about, it feels like, feels a little bit like an electric fence that you didn't know was electric. Right. But if you go into the conversation expecting it to be electric, expecting there to be emotions, expecting there to be some, maybe some shame or blame or, or feelings about like something your mom or dad said to you when you were younger, you know, all of those things, if we expect that and we give ourselves permission to be a little clumsy, just don't give yourself permission to give up. Right. Like, and especially with the kids. Like this money, sex, politics, and religion thing where like, those are the things we don't talk about. I mean, I can't think of more important topics to be talking with our kids about. So like, we don't have to necessarily create them, but when they come up, just take a deep breath. Cause you're most likely going to want to say, Hey, that's none of our business. Or we don't talk about that. But take a deep breath and say something as simple as like, Oh, tell me more or why is that important? Or what have you noticed to buy yourself some time? Because talking about money is too important. Um, we've got to change that because it's our, our relationship with money is not going to get better until we can talk about it.

John Stregger: 17:59 - 18:58
Absolutely. And I, and I, one thing that pops in mind when you talk about family and we try to share a lot of information with our kids, my wife is an accountant, uh, I'm a financial advisor. So we've got that, you know, root knowledge about money, but that doesn't mean they do, you know, they're, they're very different. And when we look at our parents, everything was taboo to your point. Like we don't share information, you know, you'll find out about it someday, but we're not going to share information with you. And I think the more you can open those doors and pull the curtain back a little bit, the, and you don't have to show your kids your paychecks or your net worth statements, but you can tell them about what's going on and even to the point that, you know, we're going to be okay. You don't have to worry about taking care of us when we're older. You know, because I think some kids think about that, like, gee, I wonder if mom and dad are going to be okay. Are we going to have to support them? Like just simple conversations.

Carl Richards: 19:00 - 20:02
are really helpful. And, and to push further, you could show them your pay stubs. Like I've got a buddy who did that. Um, and, and I've got a bunch of friends that their kids all know net worth and boy, that feels uncomfortable to me, but, but age appropriate disclosure and conversations, super smart. Um, I've been having a lot more of those lately cause my kids are all adults now and they come back to the house from school or something and One of my daughters, in fact, recently was just back, we were out on a mountain bike ride and she said, we're the wealthiest family I know. And I was like, I mean, I know, we know people with, I mean, we know people who, who, who have private jet money. Do you know what I mean? So I was like, that is not true in my head. I was like, that's, and I even said like, wait, what are you talking about? And, and, and so I got a little defensive and then we, we, we worked through it. And, and finally she said, no, no, I'm defining wealth is the ability to enjoy your life. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad.

John Stregger: 20:02 - 20:03
Yeah, that's what I do for a living.

Carl Richards: 20:03 - 20:25
I'm so glad that you feel that way. Like that, that's your definition of wealth and that you feel like we are the wealthiest people, you know, cause we've managed to enjoy our lives. So I'm not suggesting that's a good idea for anybody else. I'm just saying when the kids bring something up. notice your own tension around it because, and then try to push through and have a meaningful conversation with them.

John Stregger: 20:26 - 21:04
Right. And that it's funny. We're not going to take too, take up too much more of your time, but that brings to mind that one sketch that you have, where it's just a dollar sign and you say, what's the first word that comes to your mind? And for me, when I saw that for the first time, I thought freedom, you know, but There's all kinds of different responses you can have. There can be anxiety, there could be freedom, there could be opulence, anything can really come to mind. There's all kinds of things that come to mind, but that kind of spins off of what your daughter was saying, that you're the most wealthy people there are, or in her eyes, because you can do the things that you want to do.

Carl Richards: 21:05 - 22:04
Yeah. I did that exercise today with somebody and they, the word they used was apathy. Apathy. And I'd never, I mean, I've seen lots of like discouraged or disappointed or anxious or worried. I've seen lots of that. I've seen lots of freedom, excitement, happiness. I'd never seen apathy before. And it's so interesting. Like all I did was draw a dollar sign and we're using the word apathy. I thought, I thought a dollar sign was zeros and ones, or I thought it was about math or nobody says store a value or medium of exchange. It turns out a dollar symbol is a provocative symbol and it provokes feelings. And so, yeah, just, just being aware of those sorts of feelings when you like go to the mailbox and there's a letter from the IRS before you even open it. Like what feelings are you having? It happened to me the other day and then I opened it and I, you know, I all worked up, I'm going to jail, like, and I opened it and I have no reason to worry about it. I open it and it was a change of address request, you know, like, like, so everything on top of that was just a story in my head.

John Stregger: 22:06 - 22:51
Good stuff. Uh, Carl, I really want to thank you for joining us today. It's been, uh, enlightening and what, before we sign off here, there's a new book. You've got a book coming out in October. I think you told me, and you know, for, for five of our lucky listeners, uh, uh, buying five books for our listeners. And the first five people that email me, we're going to put in the show notes, John at discovery hyphen. Wealth.com, uh, we're going to send out a free copy when that, when that officially launches. So, uh, yeah, I think it's great. I think anytime we can help people understand money better, it's a, it's a win-win. Right. So, uh, do you have any parting words before we sign off here?

Carl Richards: 22:53 - 23:41
Excuse me. Well, thanks for that, John. Um, I. I guess the only thing I would say, look, the, the, the book you can, it's available now for pre-order at Amazon. My favorite suggestion is buy two copies, one from Amazon and one from your local bookstore. But here's the most important point. I don't care if you buy the book or not. Let's start talking more about money. Like how do we feel when we invest? Why are we investing? How do we feel when we spend? Why are we spending? Why are we saving? You know, how do we feel when the neighbor buys a new water ski boat? Like, let's start having these conversations so that we can change. Like my only goal is to lower the global anxiety around money. And I think that happens in conversation. So whether that's with the book or not, let's just start having them. And, um, thanks for having me, John.

John Stregger: 23:41 - 23:56
Oh, that's so cool. Thank you. Thank you for joining us. And thank you for everyone for tuning in to another episode of Retirement IQ. I'm John Stregger. Carl, thank you for joining us. And until we see each other again on our next episode, bye for now.

Narrator: 24:07 - 24:24
The information provided in this podcast is general in nature and should not be relied upon as a substitute for advice in any specific situation. For specific situations, advice should be obtained from the appropriate legal, accounting, tax, or other professional advisors.